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For the discussion of all things Austen, and a great deal more.
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Re: Forgiving the charming villains - 9 years ago

Clarification: when I said she did the same thing I meant in thinking her behavior was safe based on a mistaken belief. Emma did not intend to encourage Mr. Elton but her behavior alone looked like encouragement. John tells her he thinks that her manners toward Mr. Elton are encouraging and Emma is dismissive of the idea because of what she believes Mr. Elton’s feelings to be. Frank is intention
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Forgiving the charming villains - 9 years ago

I can see why Emma would see him as “less wrong”. What he’s done is similar to what Emma has done on other occasions. He seems to be encouraging her affection but he believes he’s not because he believes her feelings to be what he wants them to be. She basically did the same thing with Mr. Elton and even with Frank she assumes he’s feeling what she wants him to. Ironically if Emma had more love
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Of cabbages and kings.... - 9 years ago

Quotesome of Jane Austen's characters (and here again I am stating my opinion which I took pains to state ) will realistically never be anything other than what they are. That makes more sense – I took you to be saying something else entirely –sorry for the confusion. But to get back to Frank, now that his engagement has been made public he will not act the same way again. Not because of any chang
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Of cabbages and kings.... - 9 years ago

I understood what you were saying about a Christian attitude. But then you say: QuoteJane Austen appears naive in the extreme at times. None of her men (including the illustrious Mr Darcy) are going to be subject to some miraculous changes that occur almost almost overnight… Darcy is actuality guilty of little except the snobbery and pride bred into him by his parents, so his change has at least
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Of cabbages and kings? - 9 years ago

I get the impression the Eltons are happy for being married. It’s a superficial type of happiness, he’s happy not to have thrown himself away and she’s happy to have the precedence marriage gives her and to brag of her caro sposo, but they are superficial people.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Of cabbages and kings.... - 9 years ago

QuoteNone of her men (including the illustrious Mr Darcy) are going to be subject to some miraculous changes that occur almost almost overnight and because of love for a woman But Darcy doesn’t change his attitude overnight, we go several months without seeing him and IMO it’s not because of love for a woman it’s because in essence he’s an honorable person who wants to be the best person he can b
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Of cabbages and kings.... - 9 years ago

QuoteNone of her men (including the illustrious Mr Darcy) are going to be subject to some miraculous changes that occur almost almost overnight and because of love for a woman But Darcy doesn’t change overnight, we go several months without seeing him and IMO it’s not because of love for a woman it’s because in essence he’s an honorable person who wants to be the best person he can be. QuoteWillo
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Of cabbages and kings.... - 9 years ago

I agree completely.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Validity of Anne Elliot's reasons to break her engagement to Frederick - 9 years ago

None of that changes the fact that Fredrick attributes Anne’s breaking the engagement to a character flaw and therefore doesn’t write to her when he’s in a position to answer some of her concerns. QuoteIn other words, she was a romantic and because of this, possibly turned a blind eye to any life beyond the one she knew. I don’t agree. IMO she wrote what she knew which is what people always tell
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Validity of Anne Elliot's reasons to break her engagement to Frederick - 9 years ago

You make a good point. The only problem I can see would be if Lady Russell has convinced Anne that a man who is in love and needs money in order to marry will take foolish risks and put himself in more danger than necessary.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Validity of Anne Elliot's reasons to break her engagement to Frederick - 9 years ago

But regardless of what was on Frederick’s mind at the onset, IMO the bigger issue is what kept him from contacting Anne once his circumstances changed or from wanting to find out whether she had come to regret her decision. We know that by the time he got back: QuoteHe had not forgiven Anne Elliot. She had used him ill, deserted and disappointed him; and worse, she had shewn a feebleness of chara
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Validity of Anne Elliot's reasons to break her engagement to Frederick - 9 years ago

That’s a good point Mrs. Gardiner is able to nip things in the bud and lady Russell is coming into it when they are already engaged. I’m not surprised no one in Anne’s family noticed anything but it is surprising lady Russell didn’t. Maybe her own prejudices mislead her or maybe she didn’t have much of a chance to observe them together. I do get the impression it all happened quickly. (“They were
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Validity of Anne Elliot's reasons to break her engagement to Frederick - 9 years ago

I think we are all aware that an engagement meant a promise to marry between two people. To say it should have only affected the two people involved is a modern point of view. Marriage was considered an alliance between two families and marrying against the wishes of one’s connections was no small thing. Anne tells Frederick that she would have suffered even more if she had not broken the engageme
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Validity of Anne Elliot's reasons to break her engagement to Frederick - 9 years ago

We do know why Lady Russel didn’t like him: QuoteChapter 4 He had been lucky in his profession; but spending freely, what had come freely, had realized nothing. But he was confident that he should soon be rich; full of life and ardour, he knew that he should soon have a ship, and soon be on a station that would lead to every thing he wanted. He had always been lucky; he knew he should be so still
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Validity of Anne Elliot's reasons to break her engagement to Frederick - 9 years ago

I was under the impression that an engagement between them would have been a long engagement. This is why the conversation between Mrs. Croft and Mrs. Musgrove is significant. Mrs. Croft is a rational person and is speaking without bias and she considers it to be “very unsafe and unwise” to be engaged without knowing when they will have the means to marry. It implies that, if Frederick had spoken
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Emma vs. Lizzy - 9 years ago

I’m fine with agreeing to disagree but I feel as if you have reduced my opinion on the merits and faults of these characters down to a, dismissive, label of “Lizzie lover” and that I find frustrating.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Emma vs. Lizzy - 9 years ago

I love both Emma and Lizzy that isn’t the point at all.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: But Frederick himself thinks that he could have been guilty of pride or resentment - 9 years ago

But there’s a difference, in Austen’s books, between putting wealth first and marrying imprudently. She doesn’t present either extreme as admirable. Without the benefit of hindsight is Anne Elliot listening to the prudent advice of someone who is like a mother to her so different than Elizabeth Bennet listing to her aunt?
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: But Frederick himself thinks that he could have been guilty of pride or resentment - 9 years ago

Does his career in the Navy have to be his only defining characteristic? Might he not have brought some books with him and might there not be times at sea with not much to do that he spends reading maybe even composing a verse or two that he never shows anyone? Might not a mutual appreciation for poetry be part of why he and Benwick are such good friends? Might not Austen, who had a brother in th
by Amytat - Tea Room

Emma vs. Lizzy - 9 years ago

I don’t see any more merit in Emma’s dislike of Mrs. Elliot or Jane Fairfax than in Lizzy’s dislike of the characters in her book. They both make mistakes, Lizzy in believing Wickham so easily and Emma in her hurtful remark to Mrs. Bates and interference with Harriet, and they both learn and grow. My impression of Emma’s mistake with Robert Martin and Harriet is not so much that she doesn’t like h
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Take your partners for sense and sensibility. Favourite heroine... - 9 years ago

I don’t see any more merit in Emma’s dislike of Mrs. Elliot or Jane Fairfax than in Lizzy’s dislike of the characters in her book. They both make mistakes, Lizzy in believing Wickham so easily and Emma in her hurtful remark to Mrs. Bates and interference with Harriet, and they both learn and grow. My impression of Emma’s mistake with Robert Martin and Harriet is not so much that she doesn’t like h
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: But Frederick himself thinks that he could have been guilty of pride or resentment - 9 years ago

QuoteTo have a long-serving seaman even using a term like "You pierce my soul" is a classic example of what I mean. That is pure Austen and quite unrealistic in anyone but a romantic poet. I don’t find it unrealistic that a long-serving seaman could also be a romantic poet when writing to the woman he loves, especially when I consider that both the woman he loves and his very close friend both re
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters? - 9 years ago

Indeed I do NOT dare – I loved that movie! The actress is Sally Phillips. I liked the way she played Mrs. Bennet too. I could see how she would embarrass her daughters ect but I could also see how Mr. Bennet could have been “captivated by youth and beauty, and that appearance of good-humor which youth and beauty generally give” in the first place. I kind of wish I could see her play Mrs. Bennet i
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Take your partners for sense and sensibility. - 9 years ago

Oh, I meant scenes in the book. I laughed a lot more while reading the book than with any of the adaptions.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Take your partners for sense and sensibility. - 9 years ago

QuoteElinor actually derives comfort and consolation from the fact that she successfully hides her feelings. Until, that is, she vents them to Marianne, when she is no longer in hysteria nor in bad health state. And even then she ends up comforting Marianne. I wonder if Elinor might have been more tempted to confide her feelings if she had, had someone around who could support her the way she fin
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Take your partners for sense and sensibility. - 9 years ago

I agree I find a lot of comedy in S&S. The scene between Elinor and Mrs. Jennings where they are talking about two different things never ceases to give me a good laugh. And the scene where Lady Middleton (I think) asks Mr. Palmer if there's anything in the paper and he just says, "No" and keeps reading ... I could go on.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Col. Brandon & Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense & Sensibility wrong? - 9 years ago

QuoteWhat I sometimes wonder is if our perceptions of her characters are too coloured or influenced by watching modern adaptations? I can’t speak for others but the pictures I have in my mind of these characters do not usually match the actors who played them in the adaptions. Maybe part of that is because I watched at least two for each book within a relatively short amount of time so they weren
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Col. Brandon & Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense & Sensibility wrong? - 9 years ago

I like that Austen shows Elinor and Colonel Brandon to be good friends with no romantic interest in each other. I think it’s harder to see because the falling in love happens off-page but I get the impression in chapters 17 & 18 that Elinor and Edward share a similar sense of humor. Like when he says that if Marianne were wealthy she would by every copy of Thomson, Cowper and Scott, “to prev
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: Writing out of order. A good idea? - 9 years ago

I like that.
by Amytat - Tea Room

Re: That important? - 9 years ago

I have a tendency to overuse “that” but I agree there are plenty of times where it is needed. In the example you gave, "The conviction that Mr. Darcy would disapprove…” The word “that” alerts me I’m about to read what the conviction is. Without “that” I would probably have to reread the sentence to get the meaning.
by Amytat - Tea Room
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