How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters? This query sprang forth after reading some of the related points in the thread: "Col. Brandon & Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense & Sensibility wrong?" I have the four DVD major adaptions to S&S, P&P, and Emma. I have read the books, but not as often as I have watched an adaption, so I confess that an adaption's imagery may obtrude on what I had read. Also, a listing by story, by adaption, by character, would fit a grid. However, the prose format tool almost require a "dream cast" and explain why the others who did that character were discounted. So, "Hi ho! Hi ho, its off to the funny farm I go..." S&S: Elinor Dashwood; a tie between Irene Richards (S&S1) and Hattie Morahan (S&S3). Both have the "plain" look which is Not ugly, but with a little makeup can sparkle. Joanna David (S&S0) is exactly wrong, at her age then and a brown eyed blonde, was too pretty. Marianne Dashwood; Tracy Childs (S&S1) is attractive for the character, irked me enough to dust her bustle by her impulsiveness ("sensibility?"), and admire her sage after her near death experience at Cleveland. The others are not pretty enough, and the ugly mole evident on Charity Wakefield's back, while wearing a low back gown, is pathetic. Margaret Dashwood; cast in only the two later adaptions, with the same principle defects, I favor Lucy Boynton (S&S3). She brought a sweet endearing little sister who may be the best of both sense and sensibility when she come of age to be out in society. Mary, Mrs. Henry Dashwood; Janet McTeer (S&S3) has the youth and poise, and yet enough birthdays to be the mother to a near 20 year old daughter. Diana Fairfax (S&S1) is a good runner-up. Gemma Jones (S&S2) is too wrong! She seem old enough to be a grandmother. Henry Dashwood, as in only the last two adaptions; Simon Williams (S&S3) looked like a dying man. Tom Wilkinson (S&S2) looked like a man who should get off his backside and punt his useless son's posterior. John Dashwood; pick one. They are all equal doormats to the greedy Fanny. Fanny Dashwood; Claire Skinner (S&S3) I think is closest to the book. Harriet Walker (S&S2) almost convinced me she had a valid point about Edward's diligence to family honor. Kay Gallie (S&S0) was so oily that she could give Dracula the jym-jams. Edward Ferrars; Dan Stevens (S&S3) depicted the awkwardness of a shy guy. Hugh Grant (S&S2) come across as the actor who forgot his lines. - John Willoughby; Edward Woodward (S&S1) fit the part. He is also the Technomage "Galen" in the later part of the Babylon 5 saga. Woodward is second only to David Bamber as the most divergent characters actor. Dominic Cooper (S&S3) is a good picture of a real bad guy, the pinch of his eyes, eyebrows, and nose is quite revolting. - Sir John Middleton; some swoose between Robert Hardy's (S&S2) vigor and Mark Williams (S&S3) affability and good sense. The previous were too far over -the- top. Col. Christopher Brandon; all shown the dignity of his service and situation, but Alan Rickman (S&S2) or David Morrissey (S&S3) are tied for the needed edge. Mrs. Jennings; Linda Basset (S&S3) showed the chubby without excess corpulence. I was surprised that Patricia Routledge of (S&S0) was very fitting. Lucy Steele; only Anna Madely (S&S3) was cute enough to hook a young guy, just away from a domineering mother. The others were "Yoogly" -to- two bag ugly. (Want to know more about "the degrees of ugly?") - Robert Ferrars; Richard Lumsden (S&S2) could only get a girl after his brother's inheretance got bodged over. Mrs. Ferrars; Jean Marsh (S&S3) had a dignity that put the edge to the cruel arrogance of the book's character. Sophia Grey; Lone Vidahl (S&S2) is pretty enough without her 50,000 pounds. P&P: Jane Bennet; Rosamund Pike (P&P3) is a pretty blonde who is sweet, but Suzanne Harkness (P&P2) may be a better character fit. Elizabeth B.; Elizabeth Garvie (P&P1) is trim, like a girl who go walking a lot. Jennifer Ehle (P&P2) reflect her wit and may be a better likeness. Mary B.; Tessa Peake-Jones (P&P1) look the part, not pretty, but not ugly. Catherine "Kitty" B. ? Lydia B. Julia Sawalha (P&P2) has to reflect a girl with the morals that would embarrass a fornicaterer. Mr. Bennet; Benjamin Whitrow (P&P2) obtrude on P&P readings. Moray Watson (P&P1) is exactly wrong because he played him too prickley. Mrs. Bennet; Allison Steadman (P&P2) is close to the book, but I think Brenda Blethyn (P&P3) may be more historical. Aunt Philips; ? Sir William Lucas; ? Lady Lucas; ? Charlotte Lucas; Irene Richards (P&P1 and S&S1) William Collins; David Bamber (P&P2) is closest to the book, but Malcolm Rennie (P&P1) is more fun to watch, especially with the Collins' theme music. - Lady Catherine; Judy Parfitt (P&P1) is more likeable, but Barbara Leigh-Hunt (P&P2) is probably closer to the book. Dame Judy Dench (P&P3) may have been in contention, if the script was closer to the book, especially about the midnight raid on Longbourn. Anne de Bourge; Rosamund Stephen (P&P3) is attractive enough to make her poor physical condition the more pitiful. Emma Emma Woodhouse; Kate Beckinsale (E3). Not Doran Godwin (E1) because she is too ugly and too haughty, although that may be the right poise for a Regency Era upper crust young woman. Mr. Henry Woodhouse; Sir Michael Gambon (E4) is closer to the book, but Denys Hawthorne (E2) seem a more agreeable, fun character. Isabella nee Woodhouse Knightley; (E4) George Knightley; Johnny Lee Miller (E4). Mark Strong (E3) is too wrong, because he come off more like a Drill Sergeant. John Knightley; ? Harriet Smith; Louise Dylan (E4) is a pretty blonde, as required. Toni Collette (E2) is pudgy, with some wit, but a redhead. Debbie Bowen (E1) is exactly wrong! She is two-bag ugly and about 90% of her lines is; "yes, Miss Woodhouse." Mrs. Goddard; ? Mrs. Bates; ? Miss Bates; Tamsin Greig (E4) has the idiotic prattle about fitting, and look like a woman who would be sister to Jane Fairfax's mother. Jane Fairfax; Ania Marson (E1) has poise without pretense, or any but Laura Pyper (E4) whose brown eyes is exactly Wrong. Mr. Weston; any seem okay. Mrs. Anna nee Taylor Weston; Jodhi May (E4) Frank (Weston) Churchill; any seem okay. - Mr. Elton; (E3) meet the "handsome" requirement, but (E4) look like a weasel and "jumped Emma's bones." Mrs. Augusta nee Hawkins Elton; Fiona Walker (E1) has some dignity. Christina Cole (E4) play her parts with too much tart, as she did "Letice Protheroe" in the 200x adaption of Agatha Christie's Murder in the Vicarage. Am sure enough holes for characters remain. Thoughts? Anyone.https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,119997#msg-119997Tue, 14 Apr 2026 21:54:53 +0100 Phorum 5.2.22 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120295#msg-120295 Re: Roast me and bake me.../Re: How well do Filmmakers...?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120295#msg-120295-------------------------------------------------------
Quote

> Lydia is written only as "stout," so if she is
> taller than Lizzy, well, that will take some
> knoodling...

from chapter 2 of P&P: Oh!" said Lydia stoutly, "I am not afraid; for though I am the youngest, I'm the tallest."]]> Bobby Tea RoomWed, 02 Mar 2016 03:44:45 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120179#msg-120179 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120179#msg-120179 Jim G.M Tea RoomThu, 25 Feb 2016 00:40:49 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120178#msg-120178 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120178#msg-120178 Jim G.M Tea RoomThu, 25 Feb 2016 00:33:40 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120176#msg-120176 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120176#msg-120176 elaineofshalott Tea RoomWed, 24 Feb 2016 23:50:50 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120067#msg-120067 Roast me and bake me.../Re: How well do Filmmakers...?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120067#msg-120067My Fair Lady

I knew the generations of the dream cast could be a problem, but with impossibilities, bodge over the time elements. Too bad I did not consider Heather Angel (P&P0) in the part of Kitty Bennet, but, that is a risk of posting later thoughts.

Am I too cruel or harsh in my appraisal of the actresses and by appearance? After all, anthropometrics give numbers for attributes that contribute to or deny appearance. Anthropometrics is from solid science and may have been used in facial reconstruction forensics. The arithmetic averages of female anthropometrics lead to a generally considered attractive face, and by those numbers, large, wide set eyes and small chin is considered more attractive for women, and the more so of those features lead to stunning beauty.

I failed to submit anthropometrics as one foundation for my judging. Perhaps "plain" during Jane Austen's time, may have meant of average anthropometrics, even with a possible weakness in the contrasts around the eyes of which makeup make up. It is this weakness of contrast, especially in blondes, that open the door to the degrees of ugliness. Now, to be fair, forum rules almost forbid me to explicate worse than "two-bag ugly." Debbie Bowen (E1) illustrate the less than anthropometric average, and with her blonde hair, blonde eyebrows, and eyelashes, with light blue eyes, her eyes virtually disappear from her face. A large chin and eyeless face is ugly, by definition, for a woman.

It is this reflection, and the image of Keira Knightley, may make her the best fit by appearance for "Elizabeth Bennet," and I think I see her in the film. She does have more than the average anthropometric chin, yet her eyes can "grow on a guy," as they did Darcy. A girl who looked like Keira was a year ahead of me in school, and because she was kind and sweet, and smiled a lot, she was every girl's friend and every guy's sweetheart; to the chagrin of some pretty girls. We get some of JA's direction about Lizzy's appearance when Darcy say something about her being "tolerable," but not enough to tempt him at the Meryton assembly ball. To be fair to him, he may have still been a bit steamed after having to rescue his dear sister from the weasel Wickham.'s clutches at Eastgate (? IIRC).

BTW, I think my opinion of Joe Wright's production of P&P3 has improved. The casting does have some good fits, no real misfits, and it does not take long to Not see "Hawkeye Pierce" (M*A*S*H) in Donald Sutherland as Mr. Bennet. My main complaints are the dinginess of Longbourn, the pogo-sticking and dancer packing of the Meryton Assembly ball, and using Chatsworth as Pemberley.

Of course Marion is spot - on when the direction of an adaption break what is defined in the story. I get on my broom about that too. Let them do their artistic license and fan fiction about script points that are not defined in the story or known about the history. I strongly suspect a good script must draw on a lot from that source. As an example, the big gigs of S&S2 and S&S3 is putting Barton Cottage near the ocean: The book is clear that it is four miles north of Exeter, clearly inland.

BTW, Jim, the BBC made Two miniseries of P&P. P&P1, with Elizabeth Garvie as Lizzy, was a five-parter, and it had the defect of Lizzy dashing from the inn to Pemberley, which she did not do in the book (she did not hoof it back from Pemberley to the inn, as she did in P&P3). IIRC, Lydia is written only as "stout," so if she is taller than Lizzy, well, that will take some knoodling... Also if I remember right, Jennifer Ehle dyed her blonde hair for her audition, so perhaps her portrayal of Lizzy has a lot of acting. I do not think Firth then was so far off the age bracket. Furthermore, Lucy Briers (sp?) as Mary B., boned up on her piano playing, so that is why she at least look like she is playing the piano (I wish they would not have used Melvyn Tam's sound track), versus Lucy Robinson (?) as Mrs. Hurst chicken - winging at the Netherfield ball.

And Tina, I think I judged many of the actors by their performance in how they played or failed their characters. Did not I say; "Julia Sawalha (P&P2) has to reflect a girl with the morals that would embarrass a fornicaterer" (spell fixed her first name)? I hope that was her acting v. not from being. Perhaps if you could have cited an example of my; "evaluation of several performances on what appears to be physical appearance alone is perturbing;" would help me understand how I have failed you.

Perhaps my biggest failure is trying to put all of this into one topic. The adaptions for one book, or even the defects of one adaption may have fit better. Covering all the adaptions for three books left off JA's other books. And the scope of JA's work and the adaptions' failures could make for a Thesis, if not a Dissertation. Maybe even make a "how-to" guide book for future adaptions' producers.]]> Rae Elaine Tea RoomSat, 20 Feb 2016 03:34:51 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120050#msg-120050 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120050#msg-120050
The actress is Sally Phillips. I liked the way she played Mrs. Bennet too. I could see how she would embarrass her daughters ect but I could also see how Mr. Bennet could have been “captivated by youth and beauty, and that appearance of good-humor which youth and beauty generally give” in the first place. I kind of wish I could see her play Mrs. Bennet in a straight adaption where she would get more screen time. (I also really liked Matt Smith as Mr. Collins, even though he looks nothing like I imaged the character, I loved the way he played him and found him very funny.)]]> Amytat Tea RoomFri, 19 Feb 2016 20:41:21 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120017#msg-120017 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120017#msg-120017
That being said, when I watch an adaptation of a book, I don't look beyond superficial physical characteristics - had E. Bennet been blond, for example, I would have had an issue. I look more for intangible things. For example, Keira Knightley can't convince me she's anyone other than Keira Knightley, so I won't watch the 2005 P&p movie.

Marion]]> Marion Tea RoomFri, 19 Feb 2016 10:31:59 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120011#msg-120011 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120011#msg-120011most of the people cast in that film closer to how they appear in my head when reading the book. The only thing that tends to bother me in casting is when filmmakers go against the few physical characteristics Austen described--Darcy needs to be tall, attractive and look 27/28. Mr. Collins is in his mid twenties and of a larger scale, Jane is beautiful, Mary is plainer than her sisters, Elizabeth has dark eyes...

While the BBC mini series is the closest to the canon story, I find the casting disconcerting for some of the reasons you mentioned. However, the biggest distraction for me is the actress cast as Jane. Every time I watch that version I can't help thinking that she, as styled anyway, just isn't the most beautiful sister and certainly isn't the most beautiful girl in the neighborhood! For me, Rosamund Pike is a near perfect Jane. Greer Carson and Laurence Olivier are a creditable Elizabeth and Darcy, but they are and look older than their canon counterparts. I find the other sisters in that version fit Austen's descriptions fairly well, but Charlotte and Anne are too pretty and Collins too old. It makes things easier if I try to remember that filmmakers are engaging in their own form of fanfiction!]]> Michelle Anne Tea RoomThu, 18 Feb 2016 23:47:24 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120010#msg-120010 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120010#msg-120010That's all for now-- must run!
Jean]]> Jean M. Tea RoomThu, 18 Feb 2016 21:48:04 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120004#msg-120004 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,120004#msg-120004
With much variance in opinion, by the time our choices were ready for the filming to start they'd probably also be over aged and retired.

Because I enjoyed most of them in general I'll stay with the ones chosen. Just one preference; I would definitely have cast Penelope Keith as the ultimate Lady Catherine de Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice. Had she ever learned the lines........(-:]]> Jim G.M Tea RoomThu, 18 Feb 2016 15:04:21 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,119998#msg-119998 Re: How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,119998#msg-119998 Tina Tea RoomThu, 18 Feb 2016 03:33:06 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,119997#msg-119997 How well do Filmmakers get Austen's Characters?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119997,119997#msg-119997Emma. I have read the books, but not as often as I have watched an adaption, so I confess that an adaption's imagery may obtrude on what I had read. Also, a listing by story, by adaption, by character, would fit a grid. However, the prose format tool almost require a "dream cast" and explain why the others who did that character were discounted. So, "Hi ho! Hi ho, its off to the funny farm I go..."

S&S:
Elinor Dashwood; a tie between Irene Richards (S&S1) and Hattie Morahan (S&S3). Both have the "plain" look which is Not ugly, but with a little makeup can sparkle. Joanna David (S&S0) is exactly wrong, at her age then and a brown eyed blonde, was too pretty.

Marianne Dashwood; Tracy Childs (S&S1) is attractive for the character, irked me enough to dust her bustle by her impulsiveness ("sensibility?"), and admire her sage after her near death experience at Cleveland. The others are not pretty enough, and the ugly mole evident on Charity Wakefield's back, while wearing a low back gown, is pathetic.

Margaret Dashwood; cast in only the two later adaptions, with the same principle defects, I favor Lucy Boynton (S&S3). She brought a sweet endearing little sister who may be the best of both sense and sensibility when she come of age to be out in society.

Mary, Mrs. Henry Dashwood; Janet McTeer (S&S3) has the youth and poise, and yet enough birthdays to be the mother to a near 20 year old daughter. Diana Fairfax (S&S1) is a good runner-up. Gemma Jones (S&S2) is too wrong! She seem old enough to be a grandmother.

Henry Dashwood, as in only the last two adaptions; Simon Williams (S&S3) looked like a dying man. Tom Wilkinson (S&S2) looked like a man who should get off his backside and punt his useless son's posterior.

John Dashwood; pick one. They are all equal doormats to the greedy Fanny.

Fanny Dashwood; Claire Skinner (S&S3) I think is closest to the book. Harriet Walker (S&S2) almost convinced me she had a valid point about Edward's diligence to family honor. Kay Gallie (S&S0) was so oily that she could give Dracula the jym-jams.

Edward Ferrars; Dan Stevens (S&S3) depicted the awkwardness of a shy guy. Hugh Grant (S&S2) come across as the actor who forgot his lines.

-

John Willoughby; Edward Woodward (S&S1) fit the part. He is also the Technomage "Galen" in the later part of the Babylon 5 saga. Woodward is second only to David Bamber as the most divergent characters actor. Dominic Cooper (S&S3) is a good picture of a real bad guy, the pinch of his eyes, eyebrows, and nose is quite revolting.

-

Sir John Middleton; some swoose between Robert Hardy's (S&S2) vigor and Mark Williams (S&S3) affability and good sense. The previous were too far over -the- top.

Col. Christopher Brandon; all shown the dignity of his service and situation, but Alan Rickman (S&S2) or David Morrissey (S&S3) are tied for the needed edge.

Mrs. Jennings; Linda Basset (S&S3) showed the chubby without excess corpulence. I was surprised that Patricia Routledge of (S&S0) was very fitting.

Lucy Steele; only Anna Madely (S&S3) was cute enough to hook a young guy, just away from a domineering mother. The others were "Yoogly" -to- two bag ugly. (Want to know more about "the degrees of ugly?")

-

Robert Ferrars; Richard Lumsden (S&S2) could only get a girl after his brother's inheretance got bodged over.

Mrs. Ferrars; Jean Marsh (S&S3) had a dignity that put the edge to the cruel arrogance of the book's character.

Sophia Grey; Lone Vidahl (S&S2) is pretty enough without her 50,000 pounds.



P&P:
Jane Bennet; Rosamund Pike (P&P3) is a pretty blonde who is sweet, but Suzanne Harkness (P&P2) may be a better character fit.

Elizabeth B.; Elizabeth Garvie (P&P1) is trim, like a girl who go walking a lot. Jennifer Ehle (P&P2) reflect her wit and may be a better likeness.

Mary B.; Tessa Peake-Jones (P&P1) look the part, not pretty, but not ugly.

Catherine "Kitty" B. ?

Lydia B. Julia Sawalha (P&P2) has to reflect a girl with the morals that would embarrass a fornicaterer.

Mr. Bennet; Benjamin Whitrow (P&P2) obtrude on P&P readings. Moray Watson (P&P1) is exactly wrong because he played him too prickley.

Mrs. Bennet; Allison Steadman (P&P2) is close to the book, but I think Brenda Blethyn (P&P3) may be more historical.

Aunt Philips; ?

Sir William Lucas; ?

Lady Lucas; ?

Charlotte Lucas; Irene Richards (P&P1 and S&S1)

William Collins; David Bamber (P&P2) is closest to the book, but Malcolm Rennie (P&P1) is more fun to watch, especially with the Collins' theme music.

-

Lady Catherine; Judy Parfitt (P&P1) is more likeable, but Barbara Leigh-Hunt (P&P2) is probably closer to the book. Dame Judy Dench (P&P3) may have been in contention, if the script was closer to the book, especially about the midnight raid on Longbourn.

Anne de Bourge; Rosamund Stephen (P&P3) is attractive enough to make her poor physical condition the more pitiful.



Emma
Emma Woodhouse; Kate Beckinsale (E3). Not Doran Godwin (E1) because she is too ugly and too haughty, although that may be the right poise for a Regency Era upper crust young woman.

Mr. Henry Woodhouse; Sir Michael Gambon (E4) is closer to the book, but Denys Hawthorne (E2) seem a more agreeable, fun character.

Isabella nee Woodhouse Knightley; (E4)

George Knightley; Johnny Lee Miller (E4). Mark Strong (E3) is too wrong, because he come off more like a Drill Sergeant.

John Knightley; ?

Harriet Smith; Louise Dylan (E4) is a pretty blonde, as required. Toni Collette (E2) is pudgy, with some wit, but a redhead. Debbie Bowen (E1) is exactly wrong! She is two-bag ugly and about 90% of her lines is; "yes, Miss Woodhouse."

Mrs. Goddard; ?

Mrs. Bates; ?

Miss Bates; Tamsin Greig (E4) has the idiotic prattle about fitting, and look like a woman who would be sister to Jane Fairfax's mother.

Jane Fairfax; Ania Marson (E1) has poise without pretense, or any but Laura Pyper (E4) whose brown eyes is exactly Wrong.

Mr. Weston; any seem okay.

Mrs. Anna nee Taylor Weston; Jodhi May (E4)

Frank (Weston) Churchill; any seem okay.

-

Mr. Elton; (E3) meet the "handsome" requirement, but (E4) look like a weasel and "jumped Emma's bones."

Mrs. Augusta nee Hawkins Elton; Fiona Walker (E1) has some dignity. Christina Cole (E4) play her parts with too much tart, as she did "Letice Protheroe" in the 200x adaption of Agatha Christie's Murder in the Vicarage.


Am sure enough holes for characters remain. Thoughts? Anyone.]]> Rae Elaine Tea RoomThu, 18 Feb 2016 00:37:22 +0000