Col. Brandon & Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense & Sensibility wrong?

Col. Brandon & Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense & Sensibility wrong? I've always felt that Col. Brandon and Elinor were better matched. They had a well established friendship (which is a much better foundation for love and affection) vs being attracted to someone who reminds you of your lost love (Col Brandon & Marianne). I find the romance of Col Brandon and Marianne to be superficial and shallow. Personally I could not be flattered by a man who only liked me because I remind him of the woman he cannot have. Marianne has to convince herself to love Col Brandon and it's like she settles for him and he does her the disservice of "loving" her because she reminds him of his lost love. Edward Ferras always seemed to not have enough backbone for Elinor. I mean how do you forget that you are engaged to another woman and romance another? He never mentioned it to Elinor and while Austen in a way tries to portray Edward as honorable for keeping his engagement to Lucy despite his heart being engaged elsewhere, it is not enough because I just see Edward as dishonorable. He engaged Elinor's affections while knowingly being engaged to Lucy. It's unforgivable in my opinion. Col Brandon and Elinor just seems much better suited. They are friends which can breed love. Reading Sense and Sensibility there are passages which can make the reader think that Col Brandon and Elinor are to be the HEA. The affection and respect they have for each other seems better suited to lasting felicity. I just can't reconcile Col Brandon/Marianne and Edward/Elinor. I think that Austen may have gotten the romantic relationships wrong in this novel. Is it just me?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119888#msg-119888Tue, 14 Apr 2026 21:56:52 +0100 Phorum 5.2.22 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,120025#msg-120025 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,120025#msg-120025
Besides Ferrars had to be as he was for the plot line to work. :)]]> Peter Tea RoomFri, 19 Feb 2016 13:21:25 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119985#msg-119985 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119985#msg-119985I suspect that she had failed to write into the story a good match for Marianne and hence Brandon.

I can't agree with you. Most authors tend to plan their plots and write each and every character exactly the way they want. If Marianne marries Brandon and Elinor marries Edward, then that is how Austen wanted and planned the ending. I can't imagine her arriving at the last chapter of her novel and only then realising she had no hero for Marianne!
In my opinion, the author wants us to see that sense and sensibility should and can be balanced. At the beginning of the book, Elinor is all sense and practicality, while Marianne is all sensibility and easily swept by the intensity of her own emotions. Either extreme is dangerous. So, by the end of the novel, Elinor acquires some more sensibility (she accepts the man she loved all along, despite his less-than-sterling behaviour) and Marianne becomes more sensible, growing to love Brandon because of his character and not out of romantic infatuation. That is the point of "Sense and Sensibility", IMO. I may not be overly fond of the novel, but I can't fault the reasoning behind it.]]> Lily Tea RoomWed, 17 Feb 2016 11:37:12 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119980#msg-119980 Re: Frank Churchill's haircuthttps://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119980#msg-119980

Quote

There was one person among his new acquaintance in Surrey, not so leniently disposed. In general he was judged, throughout the parishes of Donwell and Highbury, with great candour; liberal allowances were made for the little excesses of such a handsome young man -- one who smiled so often and bowed so well; but there was one spirit among them not to be softened, from its power of censure, by bows or smiles -- Mr. Knightley. The circumstance was told him at Hartfield; for the moment, he was silent; but Emma heard him almost immediately afterwards say to himself, over a newspaper he held in his hand, "Hum! just the trifling, silly fellow I took him for." She had half a mind to resent; but an instant's observation convinced her that it was really said only to relieve his own feelings, and not meant to provoke; and therefore she let it pass.

By the way, if I am not mistaken, the haircut was only an excuse for Frank to go to London and buy the pianoforte for Jane. It is rather a silly excuse (I'm not sure whether he perceived the danger of being judged for frivolity by a conservative country society) and buying the pianoforte is a show of his reckless attachment to Jane, but he did it to give her something she would be happy for, however badly he executed it.]]> Agnes Beatrix Tea RoomWed, 17 Feb 2016 07:37:18 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119977#msg-119977 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119977#msg-119977 Jim G.M Tea RoomTue, 16 Feb 2016 21:20:37 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119976#msg-119976 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119976#msg-119976

Quote

What I sometimes wonder is if our perceptions of her characters are too coloured or influenced by watching modern adaptations?

I can’t speak for others but the pictures I have in my mind of these characters do not usually match the actors who played them in the adaptions. Maybe part of that is because I watched at least two for each book within a relatively short amount of time so they weren’t able to replace the pictures I had in my head.

Quote

Elizabeth was but tolerable in looks until the intelligence in her dark eyes attracted Darcy's interest rather than her pretty looks.

That was true in Darcy’s case but I got the impression most people do think Lizzy is pretty – just not as pretty as Jane.

Quote

Did Jane Austen stereotype her villains this way purposely?

Henry Crawford does not fit this stereotype.]]> Amytat Tea RoomTue, 16 Feb 2016 20:57:33 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119974#msg-119974 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119974#msg-119974
I think it’s harder to see because the falling in love happens off-page but I get the impression in chapters 17 & 18 that Elinor and Edward share a similar sense of humor. Like when he says that if Marianne were wealthy she would by every copy of Thomson, Cowper and Scott, “to prevent their falling into unworthy hands” His comments about the picturesque (“I shall offend you by my ignorance and want of taste, if we come to particulars. I shall call hills steep, which ought to be bold! surfaces strange and uncouth, which ought to be irregular and rugged;… I do not like crooked, twisted, blasted trees. I admire them much more if they are tall, straight and flourishing. I do not like ruined, tattered cottages. I am not fond of nettles, or thistles, or heath blossoms. I have more pleasure in a snug farm-house than a watch-tower ....”) remind me a little of Elinor telling Marianne that not everyone share her fascination for dead leaves and Elinor laughs in response to Edward’s speech I don’t remember Colonel Brandon ever making her laugh.

Edward makes a number of mistakes but I can sympathize with how he got himself into such a mess. I can see how he convinces himself he’s not engaging Elinor’s affections.]]> Amytat Tea RoomTue, 16 Feb 2016 20:44:52 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119952#msg-119952 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119952#msg-119952I can interpret Col. Brandon's attraction to Marianne without it being morbid: he is attracted to a certain type of woman and just not attracted to a different type (embodied in Elinor), even if he likes and respects her.
As for Edward and Elinor, their whole romance is underdeveloped, to use Suzanne's approach: we get to know Elinor's feelings and how she deals with them, but not much of Edward's side of the relationship, except for his final explanations. In this sense, he is Elinor's reward.
I agree that Edward's mistakes are very serious: both getting involved with an unworthy girl (especially to the extent of a secret engagement) and to yield to the temptation of furthering an acquaintance with Elinor as if he was free. Both are very immature actions. However, he shows he has a moral "backbone" when he refuses to bow to his mother and sticks to his promise without the benefit of love. I imagine that he has learned from his mistakes.

Elinor and Col. Brandon might be content if they end up married, but love doesn't necessarily develop from this foundation, contrary to romance novels.]]> Agnes Beatrix Tea RoomMon, 15 Feb 2016 20:33:25 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119947#msg-119947 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119947#msg-119947 Agnes Beatrix Tea RoomMon, 15 Feb 2016 20:02:25 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119936#msg-119936 Re: Jane Austen's handsome fatherhttps://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119936#msg-119936 Jim G.M Tea RoomMon, 15 Feb 2016 11:43:57 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119935#msg-119935 Jane Austen's handsome fatherhttps://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119935#msg-119935-------------------------------------------------------

Quote

Her father, someone she loved dearly, was a normal working and poorish clergyman with a large family and never described as handsome.

(my bolding)

On the contrary, Jane's niece Anna wrote that Jane's father "…was considered extremely handsome, and it was a beauty which stood by him all his life." In addition, he was called called "the handsome proctor" while at Oxford. (These can be easily googled.)]]> JanetR Tea RoomMon, 15 Feb 2016 11:16:22 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119930#msg-119930 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119930#msg-119930 Harvey S. Tea RoomMon, 15 Feb 2016 04:33:16 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119926#msg-119926 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119926#msg-119926 Rae Elaine Tea RoomMon, 15 Feb 2016 02:20:23 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119914#msg-119914 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119914#msg-119914Pride and Prejudice ) .

What I sometimes wonder is if our perceptions of her characters are too coloured or influenced by watching modern adaptations? Did Colonel Brandon actually look somewhat like the late Alan Rickman, or Marriane Dashwood vaguely resemble Kate Winslett? Was Darcy anything like Colin Firth? Elizabeth was but tolerable in looks until the intelligence in her dark eyes attracted Darcy's interest rather than her pretty looks. I suspect that we possibly sometimes assume this to be the case when Jane Austen may have had much more plain and ordinary looking characters than Hollywood's finest in mind. Colonel Fitzwilliam was not a handome man, neither I think was Colonel Brandon. How much like a silver screen hero was Mr Knightley? Their main attraction was one of great consequence in middle class life, that of money and financial security. They all owned large properties. "Handsome is as handsome does" is an old mandate. Did it apply in Jane Austen's world?

Wickham would have married the plain and freckled Mary King because of money and regardless of lack of beauty. The George Wickhams' John Willoughbys' Frank Churchills etc were all allowed to be handsome charming fellows but shallow and false in reality. Did Jane Austen stereotype her villains this way purposely? Her father, someone she loved dearly, was a normal working and poorish clergyman with a large family and never described as handsome. Sense and Sensibilty being her first major novel, what exactly did she have in mind? Since she rarely described her characters other than briefly, it is something of an intruiging question. It must have been so in the minds of film directors also when casting.]]> Jim G.M Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 19:20:16 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119910#msg-119910 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119910#msg-119910
Col. Brandon and Elinor are just right as is, as Jane Austen thought then, and as most of our societies miss today. They are the concept that a man can have a non-related woman friend as important and dear as a sister. This does show throughout literature, even video literature. Consider "Della Street" in Perry Mason: As a confidential legal secretary, she could be secure in her living, so like Emma Woodhouse, why should she get, or want to get, married? Mason, and their associate Paul Drake, were as close to her as brothers and excellent specimens of manhood, so the only thing she would gain in a marriage is: Well. Not that important and in the long term, not worth it. I wonder Barbara Hale's opinion?]]> Rae Elaine Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 18:29:24 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119909#msg-119909 Re: Christopher?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119909#msg-119909 NN S Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 18:17:45 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119907#msg-119907 Christopher?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119907#msg-119907 JanetR Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 17:35:34 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119903#msg-119903 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119903#msg-119903
On paper, yes, Christopher was a better match than Edward, and that's how Elinor should have made the decision... But she fell in love instead. Marianne clearly fell in love at first sight with John, and look how disastrous that turned out... And she ended up making a practical marriage.

I don't think either sister was unhappy with their choice. Elinor was still practical enough to live happily within her means ("TWO thousand a year! ONE is my wealth"). And Marianne had grown up enough to see past Christopher's flannel and to admire a man for more than dashing first impressions.

I think more could be done to make the heroes more heroic, but that is what JAFF is for. Besides, if the point was to make Elinor marry for love, the only other bachelor of note in the story is Edward's brother Robert, and that's wrong on so many levels.]]> NN S Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 15:19:13 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119901#msg-119901 Re: Original title of Sense Sensibilityhttps://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119901#msg-119901
I have to apologise for a misleading statement. "A Lady" was the title given to Jane Austen herself as the author when the book was first published. I had read that somewhere in the past and remembered it wrongly. I looked it up after your comment and saw I was in error. Again, apologies.

Jim.]]> Jim G.M Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 11:50:09 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119899#msg-119899 Original title of Sense Sensibilityhttps://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119899#msg-119899-------------------------------------------------------

Quote

Sense and sensibility originally written as "A Lady", a somewhat unimaginitive title,

What is your source for this? I've never heard of another title for it besides the original "Elinor and Marianne".]]> JanetR Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 08:22:20 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119895#msg-119895 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119895#msg-119895
I suppose I'm not as prejudiced against large age gaps because I married a man almost 15 years older than I am. Whatever our struggles as a married couple have been, very few of them have had anything to do with our age difference. That doesn't mean I don't know that we're close to the outside of what can be done successfully, but I'm inclined to believe our dear author when she tells us that they were happy together.]]> Suzanne O Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 06:07:05 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119893#msg-119893 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119893#msg-119893Sense and sensibility originally written as "A Lady", a somewhat unimaginitive title, was, in comparison to her second work, Pride and Prejudice, a somewhat pale and meandering tale that didn't really live up to its interesting beginning. A first novel may have taught Jane Austen a few valuable lessons that she applied in her second work, such as the value of strong characters operating outside the lovers, ie Mr and Mrs Bennet, Mr Collins, Wickham and Lady Catherine de Bourgh. No one in Sense and Sensibility comes near them for inspiring feelings of nonesense, humour and sheer character portrayal. Emma and Persuasion both had content that also inspired stronger impressions on the reader, and plots that were simple, feasible, in some cases almost mundane and yet interesting whilst not relying on proven formula for overdone drama. A point worth mentioning is that neither Marriane Dashwood, Elizabeth Bennet or Emma Woodhouse were overtly nice people in part at the onset. Anne Elliot on the other hand, inspired me with just the opposite (if possibly a little saintly) feeling, as did Elinor Dashwood.

Colonel Brandon and Edward Ferrars didn't inspire me either as strong people so much as mild and safe types dropped in to execute a happy ending. Willoughby also appeared a little mundane and indecisive compared to George Wickham. Marriane Dashwood just appeared as a victim of youth and all that goes with it and Willoughby fitted her imagination to the exclusion of all others so another Sir Galahad could hardly ride in and take over..
Brandon she probably felt part father figure for initially and she needed some time to let her own personality grow and mature. Brandon was also ideal as the rich husband every mother wanted for her daughter. Mrs Bennet would have had him married in a fortnight. (-:]]> Jim G.M Tea RoomSun, 14 Feb 2016 00:30:12 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119891#msg-119891 Re: Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119891#msg-119891
I also don't like the age difference between Brandon and Marianne - 17 or 18 years is too much IMO although for the times it was not unusual. I suspect that she had failed to write into the story a good match for Marianne and hence Brandon.]]> Peter Tea RoomSat, 13 Feb 2016 20:09:37 +0000 https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119888#msg-119888 Col. Brandon Elinor: Did Austen get the ending of Sense Sensibility wrong?https://www.dwiggie.com/phorum/read.php?4,119888,119888#msg-119888
I find the romance of Col Brandon and Marianne to be superficial and shallow. Personally I could not be flattered by a man who only liked me because I remind him of the woman he cannot have. Marianne has to convince herself to love Col Brandon and it's like she settles for him and he does her the disservice of "loving" her because she reminds him of his lost love.

Edward Ferras always seemed to not have enough backbone for Elinor. I mean how do you forget that you are engaged to another woman and romance another? He never mentioned it to Elinor and while Austen in a way tries to portray Edward as honorable for keeping his engagement to Lucy despite his heart being engaged elsewhere, it is not enough because I just see Edward as dishonorable. He engaged Elinor's affections while knowingly being engaged to Lucy. It's unforgivable in my opinion.

Col Brandon and Elinor just seems much better suited. They are friends which can breed love. Reading Sense and Sensibility there are passages which can make the reader think that Col Brandon and Elinor are to be the HEA. The affection and respect they have for each other seems better suited to lasting felicity.

I just can't reconcile Col Brandon/Marianne and Edward/Elinor. I think that Austen may have gotten the romantic relationships wrong in this novel. Is it just me?]]> Kaydee Tea RoomSat, 13 Feb 2016 15:46:08 +0000